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Lately I've been giving a lot of thought to vegetarianism, and the changes my diet has been going through.

For both health and environmental reasons I haven't been eating much meat for the past couple of years. I'll go days or weeks without eating any meat at all, and over the last few months I've started going out of my way to avoid eating it. But when someone asks me if I'm a vegetarian, I reply, "Not really."

I don't want to fully commit to being a vegetarian for a few reasons, primarily because I'd like to be able to go out to restaurants and eat with friends. Often I can find a (good) vegetarian meal at an otherwise non-veggie restaurant, but sometimes I can't and have to order a meat dish. The same goes for places I travel - in many countries, particularly those where you cannot eat fresh fruits or vegetables for fear of getting sick, it's very difficult to find vegetarian fare, and I want to leave myself the option of being able to eat meat if need be. And finally, on occasion, there is something I find very tasty that just happens to contain meat.

Why not just call myself a vegetarian-who-sometimes-eats-meat? Because I feel that would be cheating, and it cheapens it for the people who absolutely will not eat animals. So why call it anything at all, and just eat what I want? Because I feel that if I don't say anything, I will be served anything, and I don't want to eat just anything.

As Michael Pollan was researching his book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals", he became a vegetarian for awhile and had this to say about it:
"What troubles me most about my vegetarianism is the subtle way it alienates me from other people and, odd as this may sound, from a whole dimension of human experience. Other people now have to accomodate me, and I find this uncomfortable."
Although he was speaking about the burden he places on the host(ess) when he goes to someone's house for dinner, I think it says a lot (see my statement above about eating in restaurants, for instance). Wouldn't it be nice if vegetarians and vegans didn't have to be "accomodated", and everyone could find something yummy to eat wherever they went?

Comments

[info]moof wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 02:08 am (UTC)
Why vegetarians/vegans are so obsessed with the label defining who they are, I dunno.
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 04:49 am (UTC)
I thought about the label thing as I was writing this, and asked myself why it mattered. The reason it does is basically what I wrote above - "Because I feel that if I don't say anything, I will be served anything, and I don't want to eat just anything." If you tell friends/family this when I go to someone's house for dinner then they won't bother cooking something you won't eat. And if I ask for vegetarian food at a restaurant they get the message that people want it, even if it's not on the menu.
[info]moof wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 09:30 pm (UTC)
(Ugh, replied to the wrong comment earlier...)

Oh, I wasn't talking about you in terms of labels; saying you're vegetarian for a functional reason (i.e. to avoid eating unwanted meat) seems perfectly normal and desirable. On the other hand, I know people who define themselves in terms of being vegetarian/vegan/whatever - e.g. "I am a vegan! My name is Wendy!"
[info]msjen wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2006 10:42 pm (UTC)
Someone once commented to me, "Being vegan must be a big part of your identity." And, oddly enough, it's really not at all. But, some people are really into it, especially if they're animal rights activists. I dunno. Depends on who you are I guess.
[info]schoonergirl wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 03:15 am (UTC)
Whatever you decide, make sure you have a balanced diet. One of the problems I've seen is that people who are sometimes vegetatian don't rebalance their diet to account for the times when they aren't eating meat. It can lead to some odd cravings and overeating.
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 04:55 am (UTC)
Oh, don't worry, a balanced diet isn't a problem. I'm pretty knowlegable about nutrition so I do know how to eat when I make an effort to eat well.
[info]rapier1 wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 04:24 am (UTC)
Because I feel that if I don't say anything, I will be served anything, and I don't want to eat just anything.

If you are served something you don't like then you say, politely, "Thank you but no. I believe I will pass." It works exceedingly well as long as you are amoung people who have been brought up properly. It has always worked very well for me when I decline seafood.
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 04:53 am (UTC)
I think this is fine for some circumstances, but not for others. For example, if I go to someone's house for dinner and they've spent a lot of time preparing a dish I won't eat (vegetarian or not), then I feel bad for not eating what they prepared for me, and they feel bad that there's nothing for me to eat.

And if I go to a non-vegetarian restaurant and request a vegetarian meal, this sends a message to the chef that it just may be worth it to put (more) veggie items on the menu.
[info]rapier1 wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 01:59 pm (UTC)
How often do you go to someone's house for dinner who doesn't know you well enough to know that you'd rather not eat meat? Or that you don't know well enough to actually tell them in advance? Anyway, if you don't know them very well then asking them to change their menu to suit your needs may be inappropriate anyway.

Likewise, how often do you go to restaurants that does not have vegetarian entrees available? At this point in time if a place doesn't have vegetarian items on the menu they just aren't concerned about the vegetarian business.

Honestly, I'm just not entirely sure exactly what you are worried about. Tell people you are a vegetarian. Then, when you see a side of beef that is esepcially tasty... eat it. Whats the problem?
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 15th, 2006 05:22 am (UTC)
Actually, regarding the restaurants, it's surprising how many places won't have a good veggie meal on the menu. They might have a salad or a token dish, and sometimes even the salads have meat. (One nice place I recently went to had virtually nothing - I had to eat a crappy salad and french fries.) Also, I don't eat mushrooms and it's amazing how many places want to serve mushrooms to vegetarians - and they aren't even vegetables :P

So yeah, I feel it is important to let restaurants know they should have more veggie items on the menu. And at the aforementioned salad-and-fries restaurant i did ask the waiter to let the chef know that patrons were requesting veggie food. Who knows? Maybe he'll listen.
[info]msjen wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2006 10:43 pm (UTC)
Salad and french fries, unfortunately, is a vegetarian standby -- that's pretty much all I ate in high school! Fortunately, many places are coming around. Mushrooms are probably a big problem, though...ack!
[info]msjen wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 06:41 am (UTC)
Long, long response...
I totally understand where you're coming from on this. The social aspect of food and feeling like I was a burden on people was a actually big hurdle for me, but there are lots of ways to handle these situations without offending people. It took me several years to learn how to deal with social situations involving food in ways that didn't offend others or cause me to compromise my principles. (The last straw was when I had to eat shark fin soup.) I'll try to track down where I read about this, because I remember reading a lot of great suggestions in one place at some point.

It also depends on the person -- there is a great variety in how people react to your food choices. (Although, as every vegan knows, there is a pretty short list of standard reactions, if you want to hear them!) The first year or so is hard, but once people get used to your dietary preferences, they really do see than it's not such a pain in the ass to eat with you after all. It's just a matter of finding what you're comfortable with. For example, I do not eat vegan when I travel outside of the US, because it's just too hard and because I don't want to entirely miss out on the local cuisine. However, I just cannot personally bring myself to eat meat, so I'd rather go in without food if the only option is, say, a chicken. But I still call myself vegan, and I'm okay with that.

Perhaps your food choices don't fit neatly into a label...which is just fine! I think "mostly vegetarian" is a perfectly acceptable thing to be and to tell people.

Anyway, as you can imagine, I have a lot of thoughts on the matter, which I would be happy to discuss with you any time. The important thing is finding out what works for you...and, again, like many other things in life, it may not fit in any particular category.
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 15th, 2006 05:02 am (UTC)
Re: Long, long response...
I am curious - what sort of standard reactions do you hear? I'm starting to hear a couple myself as I'm going through this change of diet thing - people who eat pretty much anything are very critical, while vegetarians/vegans/people who are careful about what they eat are supportive. And the worst thing is that my mom is one of the most openly critical; many years ago I did consider myself a vegetarian (if only for a few months), and even lately when I tell her "I'm trying not to eat meat" I hear that tone in her voice saying, "Oh my crazy daughter, what silly thing is she doing now?"
[info]silveryblu wrote:
Nov. 15th, 2006 06:59 am (UTC)
Re: Long, long response...
Many of the vegetarians/vegans I know are extremely unassuming and gracious about their choices in mixed company with people "who eat pretty much anything." I'm sure this takes time and patience with the invariable barrage of questions, which must seem confronting.

I'm sure it also comes with experience how to deal with a disappointing menu politely.
[info]msjen wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2006 10:38 pm (UTC)
Re: Long, long response...
Here are some standard reactions to the innocently delivered sentence: "I have decided to eat vegetarian." (or whatever -- just mentioning it here because I want to make it clear that these comments do not come after, say, a long rant about agribuisness or something. Just a statement.)

Reaction #1: "Well, I'm not going to stop eating meat!"
This is the response from people who see your vegetarianism as a personal affront. They then launch into a long description of why they eat meat, with lots of detailed examples. Some people sound guilty -- especially if make their own dietary accommodations like only eating free-range meat or something. Former vegetarians are often the worst. Others are just pissed off at you for no reason. Probably because you don't love America.

Reaction #2: "Oh my god, is it okay if I eat this chicken sandwich in front of you? I feel awful."
This is the response from people who don't want to offend you. I always tell them that it's very considerate of them to ask, but that I am perfectly okay dining with them. You usually have to tell people this about ten times and accompany them to several meat-friendly establishments before they believe you. But, you know, this reaction is okay by me -- at least they care.

Reaction #3: "Why?"
This is a perfectly valid question, but it can be from genuine curiosity or have the tone of "What the hell are you thinking?" I try to give an honest but not terribly detailed answer, because I do not want people to think I am pushing my views on them. Sometimes it leads to an interesting discussion. Sometimes it leads into reaction #1, where people try to refute you point by point.

Reaction #4: "So, what do you eat?"
The proper response to this question is: "Nuts and berries." But, seriously, I get asked this a lot. People cannot fathom food that doesn't center around meat, which makes sense, because this is the way most of us grew up eating. I tell people that I eat vegetarian versions of non-European food, and give some common examples (falafel, bean burritos, stir-fries...) Most of the time, this requires several explanations before they really remember: "Oh, so NO milk, right? What about eggs?" Again, this is very much okay with me. At least they are trying to understand.

Reaction #5: "Do you eat..." "How about..." "Wait! A-ha! Your shoes are leather!"
These are people who are trying to catch you being inconsistent. This one probably only applies to vegans. People ask you everything they can think of, as if you wouldn't have thought through these things before. I can usually shock them with something they don't know about, like refined sugar, and then they believe that I am serious and leave me alone. And, no, my shoes are not leather. Fuck off.

Reaction #6: "How do you know carrots don't have feelings?"
This reaction is very popular with my father. I have been some shade of vegetarian over half my life now and he still asks me this. Other people do too. It drives me batty. I try to be nice about this one but usually end up snarkily suggesting they go back to Bio 101.

Reaction #7: "Okay. Wow. What's that like?"
These people secretly want to be vegetarians. My mother falls in this category, fortunately for me. It's nice to have people curious and interested in a positive way.

There's probably more, but I think that's long enough for now! :)
[info]corneliusagain wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 10:29 am (UTC)
Good comments, and an issue I've been wrestling with too. My position is that I want to respect the meat more. I don't want to eat battery hens; I know that most eaten animals are raised under terrible conditions and it puts me off. I don't want to go veggie because I don't believe it's all that healthy, I don't like veggies enough, and I do enjoy meat. Plus, I don't think it's intrinsically bad to eat meat.

I don't need a label as such, but I would like some position that I could name. Right now, as I said, my best effort is "respect the meat". Eat it less, eat good stuff, preferably organic and free range and sustainably farmed (for fish), make sure it's worth it (well prepared). Avoid the diced and reprocessed crap that comes from the intensive farms. I don't need meat in pasta or risotto or stir fry or a ton of other dishes, so just leave it out.
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 15th, 2006 04:51 am (UTC)
I feel pretty much the same way you do. The more I've been learning about exactly how our food gets onto the table, the more I've been eating non-factory farmed/sustainable/organic stuff. Although I have heard a term used for people who want to "respect the meat": conscientious omnivores.
[info]monkey_mind_ wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2006 05:30 pm (UTC)
hear, hear!
i agree with you. i've been thinking about this alot lately (when i have moments to think). but for the moment i've decided to grant myself some peace and not dwell on the label issue. i'm still identifying as an omnivore.

you reminded me of a few years ago when i was a vegan, dating a vegetarian. lol. vegan with food allergies. gee, no, i couldn't possibly have alienated anyone ;-)

recently i was conversing with someone who brought up the idea that it's not just hormones in meats, hormones are in so many food products these days. i haven't started to research that yet, i've got so much else to take care of first this month and next.

i've always preferred fresh, local, minimally manipulated foods (meat, produce, everything-- i come from a long line of farmers and grocers).

but lately, the more aware i become, the more my food purchases narrow.

however, i refuse to become a breatharian. dammit, i love food too much.

on that note, i need to finish breakfast ;-)
[info]g_na wrote:
Nov. 15th, 2006 05:10 am (UTC)
Re: hear, hear!
I completely agree with you about the fresh, local, minimally manipulated foods. I try to buy as much as I can from places like Rainbow and little markets, and try to avoid places like Safeway whenever possible.

And speaking of alienation - I'm a would-be vegetarian who doesn't eat fungi. Since so many veggie meals are made with mushrooms (I can't eat at Millenium Restaurant at all), it's part of the reason I haven't gone 100% veggie.

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